Please take a look at the situation in 1 Coninthians 5. No one. In addition, the churchs elder board repeatedly refused to reveal the volunteers name, citing confidentiality concerns, describing the person only as someone who was part of the church community and never as someone who had direct family ties to leadership. 1:17-25 ESV). It cannot even operate in a functional, harmonious manner. The Spirit works, sometimes over decades, with friends and acquaintances. He also told them this parable: Can the blind lead the blind? Tried to handle it internally. We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years and were sad when the Ortbergs left to California. RELATED: Independent report finds allegations against Willow Creek founder Bill Hybels credible. Even worse, you can be shamed/shuned, and called lukewarm for your honest questioning of what you experienced/think. Another case of a desperate preacher caught with his hand in the cookie jar looking for an excuse and sympathy from gullible followers. [12] Daniel M. Lavery is the founder, writer and editor of the now-defunct feminist humor blog The Toast[13] and was the author of the "Dear Prudence" advice column for the Slate online magazine from November 2015 until May 2021. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. John Ortberg in 2019. Like they say, to each his own. WHAT EVIDENCE? A freedom that claims us in Christ regardless of what our parents do for a living, that releases us from the need to be perfect, to maintain a certain image, to become the person that God has made . Theres much interesting reading on the Donald MacLeod thread, including this 1988 quote posted Thursday by Malcolm, from Mr James Fraser: his response failed to allay my fears that there was some truth in the allegations. They are pits of mass deception and subterfuge. Back then, they complained about PC(USA) not being hardcore enough about salvation for King Them and caring too much about social justice. Anyone who says otherwise or who tries to slam someone for not telling immediately just doesnt know what theyre talking about. What nonsense. More of my thoughts here: http://www.divorceminister.com/nancy-ortberg-shares-her-side-rebill-hybels-allegations/. And sadly most victims spend YEARS time trying to answer the question why they were targeted. Even our laws in the US lead to punishment o f one chooses to disobey them . There just are. Or your friends husband. etc. When his father refused to act, Lavery wrote the initial email to church leaders expressing his concerns, detailing his conversations with his brother and his father, along with his brothers long history of work with children. That this has to be explained in The Church is unbelievable. Additionally, John studied at the University of Aberdeen, Scotland. Because you put so much trust and admire a leader like Hybels, your first instinct is to dismiss anything off about them. That is a big part of the problem. I definitely have pictures of my cat as a kid dressed up in doll clothes looking not super happy. debuted at #3 on the New Release chart[5] at Amazon.com.[6]. I have big concerns about lumping everything under that umbrella. @ dee: Brad I am the Bride of Christ, the Church, as are Dee and Deb and many others who post here. So done. Walking away from an institution is not the same as walking away from faith in Christ. Once the investigation closed, the results found that there was no indication of wrongdoing, the churchs elders told RNS in a statement. I would like people to know that Danny sacrificed everything, she said. The church also barred the volunteer from working in its childrens ministry and said the volunteer no longer has a role at the church. We are the only ones allowing them through even though I am starting to disallow some. I want to express my gratitude to Nancy for coming forward. Bingo. If the 21st century church had the same healthy respect for a literal hell that the 1st century church had, we might behave differently in and out of church including church leaders! Your experience fits my own. Currently, he is an ECO Presbyterian church with more than 4,000 members. People you work with? The next morning, Bill and I were the first ones at breakfast in the hotel. I dont understand the focus by this and other commenters on when did she tell her husband. This is ALL so disappointing and disheartening. Parallel universe I suppose; different set of rules most likely. But, visa-a-vis Nancys testimony, if things really were so bad and uncomfortable in that hotel room, why the following admittance: On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. Excuse me? Including the Ortbergs. John Ortberg, the senior pastor at California's Menlo Church, is under fire for allowing his son, John Ortberg III, to work with minors after he knew of his son's . I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. Working our works out of view, Its not safe for children. But then, Im just The Crazy Kid, and hes always been the Sweet Little Angel. At what point will Heather Lawson realize that Willow Creek needs to over? Go back to JBs April 16 comment. Ambien or the Devil it is always Something/one Elses Fault. [4] On August 13, 2012, Ortberg's book Who Is This Man? He told me he had taken Ambien. I dont know that I qualify in your estimation as a person of substance, but Ive been a reader/commenter on this blog for 10 years and have seen Law Profs post for a number of years and know some of his background. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. Hence, it is easier to build a close-knit cult of people who really dont know each other that well. Dee, is Julie a new commenter here? Especially the volunteers name: John Johnny Ortberg III, the pastors youngest son. Kudos to these two publishers. There is a legal concept called spoliation of evidence, which refers to the destruction or withholding of evidence whether done intentionally or accidentally. Speak the Word when it is time and serve with love always. Wow!!! There are many similar type of things over the years I did not mention. He believes the churchs elders and his father have worked primarily to protect their reputations, rather than finding the truth. 1 comment deleted. Youre not alone Lyds. Most of the folks who comment on this blog are of that stripe in their comments, they express a great concern for ministers and ministries who appear more concerned about their mission than the Great Commission. I would assume these claims are multi million. But we are not talking about the secular world. For most, even for insiders (like I used to be, 2x an elder) it takes a very long time to finally look at things as they actually are and admit Pastor is not only not a decent guy, but whether hes aware of it or not, hes likely sold out to the service of hell itself! And many of them are, perhaps a number that would shock us all. If you all think that personal shopping is sex abuse, you need to get real. Surely someone from the WCC trebuchet club could have found somebody better at weaving a tale. Hugging spouse and kids a lot is good. I bought pants, shirts, belts and sweaters and you picked what you wanted and paid me for those items. People invest a lot of themselves into their celebrity pastors. @ dee: Dee, We still need to get together on that religious research thingie. and Ph.D. in clinical psychology from Fuller Theological Seminary. It was then I learned the reason my brother had been avoiding me was not only because of my transition, but it was because everyone else in the family knew that he was a pedophile. So thats why I was interested in this concept. I treated my childhood dog like a doll. So he moved to protect himself and his position. It creates an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance. We werent leaders, but we can tell you re: Stowell and many others that they leave and say nothing or little to protect their own reputations and future work in ministry. Its not about perfection but it is about striving to be. Disgraced pastor Ted Haggard faces new allegations, Willow Creek announces major layoffs amid post-COVID struggle, Menlo Church investigation finds no direct evidence or disclosures of sexual abuse, Author Shauna Niequist apologizes for her silence following allegations against father, Bill Hybels, Embattled megachurch pastor John Ortberg resigns from Menlo Church, Copyright 2020, Religion News Service. I do and I wont allow this pathetic attempt to hurt another. Between 1985 and 1990, he served as a senior pastor at Simi Valley Community Church. And few of us agree on every point! @ Barbara Roberts: Things add up all too well, sadly. The faith grew. As I continued reading the thread, you did not sound at all like the person on Twitter. @ okrapod: @ dee: If they were sent and stored in a encrypted format, then you would need the key to open them and read them. And why on earth is this even a discussion? This reminds me of Bob Packwood, a former senator from my state. Cliffe also said she spoke with Johnny Ortberg, trying to convince him to end his volunteer work and to seek treatment. But the facts are in. @ Nancy2 (aka Kevlar): analytical thinking. Whew! People Photos Purpose. At what point did Nancy inform her husband? IF NOTHINGS DOCUMENTED, IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU CANT PROVE A THING!!!!!. Ortberg denied. The fact that people post here and not just give up on the church and Christainty gives me great comfort the NT clearly warns of false profits amoung the brethern and clearly teaches we should have qualified leaders. This is going to get worse before it can get better. What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. Born and raised in Rockford, Illinois, John earned a degree from Wheaton College and his M.Div. My assessment is that the entire leadership there at Willow Creek needs to be held accountable and the base must face this issue with appropriate consequences. People not in the mega inner circle world dont understand it. There are evil people who look like good people. Not so, in broken systems. J ohn Ortberg's resignation statement as senior pastor of Menlo Church, given all that transpired, provoked more sadness than surprise. [7], On January 24, 2020, Ortberg returned from leave. Hybels was an early god of the mega how to manual. People handle things. Lavery hoped the two could reconcile. . I agree. But I have not noticed any hugging at the hospital or at any doctors or dentists office. On the surface, an extended hug may seem harmless, even though deep down it creeps you out a little. No idea the the Bible says, Do the work of an evangelist!. The statement was wrong in every way and since there is a great possibility that the group is very concerned and just seeking truth. No!! No idea the the Bible says, Do the work of an evangelist! When one person has an experience like this with a trusted friend and spiritual leader, they typically dont know how to make sense of it. Jesus wins. He thought that his brother had been avoiding him because hes trans, and yes, that seems to have been part of the problem, but in reality it seems mostly to have been because Lavery was literally the only person in the familywho didnt know about Johnnys big problem. if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? So, does that mean the alleged improprieties, at least for them, are not #Metoo worthy offenses? How many women would even dare come forward after being called liars, drunks and suicidal? Then I started questioning that after quite a few! As I said, I dont hug people at work. He didnt even notify anybody at the church. Wonder who taught Billy to dress like a leader. As I said before, I think people who disbelieve the testimony of victims are the least credible people in these situations. Wherever my story takes me, however dark and difficult the theme, there is always some hope and redemption, not because readers like happy endings, but because I am an optimist at heart. We still do not know what that really means. Exactly. In that planning he can do and say things prior to the offence which will give him a get out of jail free card later if his offence gets exposed or the target woman overtly resists his abuse. he also holds an M.Div. But she was trying to equate her comraderly relationship with Ortberg the same as women who have come forward concerning hybels Behavior. But, the cat is out the bag. As of 2022, he hosts a podcast on Slate titled . That said, this is all so tragic. What happened to people? We were in each others homes all the time. (That last one is pure fun in a mega church because you have to trust the elders/boards. He describes how skilled offenders select, set up, groom, offend against, re-groom and then re-offend against the woman/women they target. @ Law Prof: The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. So, it is imperative to preserve discoverables especially as the destruction or withholding of them may mean the court can interpret that act as consciousness of guilt and therefore assume that the evidence went against the case of spoliators. Thats how they get by with it. Hes clearly a narcissistic predator, and I feel so horrible for his victims, his family, and especially those for who the spell hasnt been broken yet and whom he will continue to abuse. One has nothing to do with the other. He could have retired during the Big 40th celebration and the women could have been supported and validated. It came out that he had a child with one lady out of wedlock. Dee and Deb, if you are able, can you please let Vonda know about my previous comment? Its a good time to focus on Jesus, not on any leader, which is misguided faith in the first place. Sounds like at least some of the accusers would like to see justice for sure, but also redemption for even Hybels. I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. Thank you for sharing your analysis of this! John Ortberg is a featured mentor with The Ascent. For someone who set himself up as a leader of leaders, Hybels made a critical leadership mistake here. Share Memory. Thanks, all! Whether anyone associated with any of his accusers is a jerk or not, I fail to see the pointunless, of course, the point is to smear whoever accuses him so that people will think twice before bringing forth any more stories. Willow Creek was promoted by Hybels as a model for all of christendom, Look at me, I have the answers. At times it became oppressive for those churches that were told to tear up their foundations and follow The Model. I know this because I have experienced it myself. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+5&version=NIV, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. has been proclaimed against the Devil and his Witches. I dont fault them for that, but its what happens. WC is Hybels no matter how much they protest. Example, why did you agree in front of everyone to stay after everyone they all left,you idiot. 4 unwanted extended hugs (thats including Nancy Ortbergs latest revelation). These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. It took a long time for her to get past that. These things dont work without followers and their money. YOU CANT PROVE A THING!!!!!. People are observing us, day in and day out. People have been had. If someone thinks so, tell me how. Unfortunately, this particular scandal not only impacts specific Willow Creek pastors or employees it impacts the body of Christ and the thousands of people seeking to know Jesus. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. To choose to continue to take a medication in spite of those side effects, when there are so many other sleep aids available, makes no sense. (Because it was awkward to say no and why would I think a great man of God I had known for so long would be creepy.) I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. Its the same thing my university wrings their hands over. All about leadership, leadership, leadership. Then Ortberg, a popular speaker and evangelical leader who played a key role in drawing public attention to allegations of misconduct against Bill Hybels, the legendary founder of Willow Creek, returned to the pulpit and the church hoped to move on. Standing Ovations: Whats the Difference Between Highpoint Church and Willow Creek Community Church, Some Thoughts on Supposedly Feminist Men Who Reportedly Abuse/Harass Women | futuristguy, http://www.divorceminister.com/nancy-ortberg-shares-her-side-rebill-hybels-allegations/, https://vondadyer.weebly.com/blog/vonda-dyers-statement-re-chicago-tribune-and-bill-hybels, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa0EtdtPi8w, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv72Q23lIp0, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bKkOke2noyc, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FLT3Cb96-Mk, https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=28151%5D, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed. Who are the people our Creator said were His people? Certainly not the ones who keep claiming they are always the victims.
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