This is an amazing story. I always asked her this when I wondered if I was handsome in any way. Kate Bowler:Well I think part of it, and this gets to another phrase that you write about which is I dont know, but you and I, it sounds like, have given up on certainties as a way to cope with that, both having been through cancer, and also I think both realizing that people really dont like it when you say, I dont know.. Like, Today could be this day, well, you know, today I met you, now were friends, and who knows whats going to happen now? Thanks For Being Here Mary Hope's Letter Introducing Alex. As many of our listeners know, Kelly has a dear cousin, Kathy, who turns up, one way or another, in all of Kelly's books. What do we do when the labels were given arent necessarily the ones we choose for ourselves? I was also living only maybe 10 miles from my very old grandma who lived alone, and I kept kind of meaning to go visit her, but its a lot easier to show up at work every day at the United Way, and get kind of righteous about all the people who work for money versus the rest of us who are working for the greater good, than it is to go to your grandmas smelly, weird apartment, and have weird conversations with an 88-year old, you know? Those ordinary consonants and vowels that, when strung together, offer meaning and points of entry for others. Kelly Corrigan:Now maybe Im going to go to Durham, and now maybe Im going to get my PhD in Divinity. You are in good company. Kelly Corrigan:My instinct is to fix, cause I feel Im almost sure I can. Kelly Corrigan:And thats the truth. Kelly Corrigan:And so I didnt do it. Adjust the colors to reduce glare and give your eyes a break. RELATED LINKS Try this episode's happiness practice: 36 Questions for Increasing Closeness Read Kelly Corrigan's new book, Tell Me More Transcript You might actually give somebody a chance to discover whats really bothering them, and in that discovery they might find their own solution, but the fact is that if you can bite your stupid tongue, and get over yourself, and just keep eliciting their whole story, then the next thing you know, their mood is changing, and theyre feeling more solution-oriented, and then they get the buzz of solving the problem. Shes not going to their wedding, shes not going to pick out wedding dresses with them. I mean, people are getting colon cancer at your age all the time. Each episode ends with Kellys shortlist of takeaways, appropriate for refrigerator doors, bulletin boards and notes to your children. Find me online at @KateCBowler, and Id love to hear what you think of this episode. Dont worry, and she said, Well, my problem is I cant zip my dress by myself, so I thought if it was a woman, I could ask her to come in, and zip my dress, and I thought, Thats the tiny moments that are so gut-wrenching for a new widow. It just ends the tension because what youre saying is, I see it how you see it, and I agree with you. I found that instructive. Many of you listen to Kelly Corrigan who WFS brought to Charlotte in October 2021. Each episode in Season 5 of "Tell Me More" will leave you hopeful and with a few more tools in your kit to craft the life you want. Duration: 3:0 Transcript HARI SREENIVASAN: Now to another in our Brief But Spectacular. Kelly Corrigan:One that Ive always liked is, Things happen when you leave the house. I think I like the sense of theres something out there that you can tap into. Touching on themes like self-belief, resilience, humility, and justice, this series normalizes the human condition and emphasizes our capacity to grow. Kelly Corrigan:So, I say at the end of this chapter, Shouldnt loss change a person for the better? Forever? Alex, You wrote this book in a season of incredible loss. Kate Bowler:Today, I get a chance to talk to Kelly about some of her very best phrases. Then the ocean with its waves so vast, impossible to touch bottom, then a maze, then a mountain, then seasons, a natural disaster. Welcome to Kelly Corrigan Wonders, a place for people who like to laugh while they think and find it useful to look closely at ourselves and our weird ways in the hopes that knowing more and feeling more will help us do more and be better. If you haven't heard of Father Greg Boyle, let us introduce you: a Jesuit priest who has a touch of Santa Claus in his affect, Greg Boyle has collaborated with thousands of former gang members to build thriving businesses and communities of radical acceptance in East LA. Minds dont rest. Its so that they can identify some critical difference between you and them that makes them feel like they can exhale again. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Youre going to slide around, you know, youre going to deserve your life a little more some days than others. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. This is one of the most moving and important conversations weve ever shared and we thank PBS for supporting this work as well as the Lafayette Library and Learning Center for hosting the shoot. Kate Bowler:Absolutely. You say something thats so weird cause I say it all the time, so when I read it I thought, Did you reach inside my brain? You adopted the phrase, Onward as a bit of a motto. Ryland shined brightly - especially in the darkest places. Thats like total vanity but, especially with the kids, I definitely think, Edward and I both think, If you let us run this out for you, well get it done like one, two, three, and thats so humiliating, and degrading, and just the opposite of self-esteem building, which is sort of like the ground we walk on as adults. Im sorry to ask about the hard part, but would you mind telling me what happened? Make the magic happen. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. So Kelly, welcome. P.S. Kate Bowler:Wow, and thats a big word. Kate Bowler:Oh friend. Kindly, Kilpy Kelly Corrigan:She cant wear half her clothes because she cant zip them by herself. Its a sin, its hell. Constance Wu also thanks a past educator of hers, Mr. Frizzle. That sounds really right to me. Kelly Corrigan:So, I say at the end of this chapter, Shouldnt loss change a person for the better? I mean, I remember thinking, when I wasnt sure, when I was in an especially tough moment of illness, every time I would look at Zachs nails I would think, Is this what wouldve happened if I hadnt been here to do this? She was really, really into manners, and as kind of an act of gratitude, not in an uptight, British way, but as a Look at us eating a meal together, like, Nobody should eat before the last person gets down. I go, Oh, thank you for that bit of suggestion.. I was so mad that I shook the cage a bit, that hamster eating its sibling. Kelly Corrigan is the best-selling author of "Tell Me More: Stories about the 12 Hardest Things I'm Learning to Say," and a proud graduate of the University of Richmond. Labels like chronic illness, or caregiver, or widow, or mom of a kid with special needs. Its all this cumulative effect of a thousand minuscule moments. Today, I get a chance to talk to Kelly about some of her very best phrases. Yeah. Im so sorry youre not going to like any of my answers. She plans to give it to her daughter, who graduates from high school in June.. This is me writing a letter to Liz, and I wrote the whole thing, and I cried my eyes out the whole time I was writing it, and wiping my nose, and blowing my nose, and sitting back down, and Edwards like, You all right? And Im like, Im all right. Del Seymour and Kelly Corrigan in Lafayette, CA. Gratefully, She was really, really into manners, and as kind of an act of gratitude, not in an uptight, British way, but as a Look at us eating a meal together, like, Nobody should eat before the last person gets down. Kelly Corrigan:Im telling you what, man, you can not believe how much I use this, and you can not believe how still it is not my natural instinct. Jennifer Garner tells Kelly Corrigan how she inspires others to find their true passions. Kelly Corrigan:Like, almost every time Im sure that if you just let me take over, I can make this problem go away. (To be fair, Ive loved all that I have listened to). Team Everything Happens, Kate, Kate Bowler:I do think people offer certainties when they think that youre proof of something that scares them, and they cant just live in the uncertainty of not knowing for a minute. Kelly Corrigan:Theyre never going to not do that, and thats how theyre going to raise their kids, and that means shes still here. I mean, I dont know why you went with, Everything Happens for a Reason, because Dont get crumbs on the baby, that could be the follow up. Together, Kate and Kelly explore the phrases we cling to in order to find deeper connection and meaning during difficult times. Maybe Wills curious phrase, Its like this, applies here too. You might actually give somebody a chance to discover whats really bothering them, and in that discovery they might find their own solution, but the fact is that if you can bite your stupid tongue, and get over yourself, and just keep eliciting their whole story, then the next thing you know, their mood is changing, and theyre feeling more solution-oriented, and then they get the buzz of solving the problem. Your email address will not be published. Im like, Yeah, right. It just came out whole, and of course, to me its the most important and moving chapter in the book for sure. This forgetting, this slide into smallness, this irritability in shame, this disorienting grief Its like this. I mean, people are getting colon cancer at your age all the time. So, maybe when life is chronic, we all need some sayings to anchor us, our very own mottos that guide us through. Kelly Corrigan:And Im getting to walk with them way longer on their road, and I felt this sense that I could never possibly deserve that, that Im not that great a person, or a mom. Kelly Corrigan Wonders listeners will be familiar with Alexs story as we shared it in the episode A Mother Son Story of the Ultimate Transition and it was also replayed it in the For the Good of the Order feed. Follow Kate on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. She reflects on her love and loss through ordinary moments and everyday sayings. So now if a family member is being difficult or misbehaving, we have established ground rules, So and so is family and we dont sell family! Kate Bowler:Thanks so much for doing this. Kelly Corrigan:They hate it. You can watch this episode of Tell Me More anytime at pbs.org/kelly.Thank you also to the Lafayette Library and Learning Center. It offers so much grace to us all who are struggling to do better and be better. Writer Kelly Corrigan urges 2021 grads to choose curiosity over judgment Writer Kelly Corrigan is a bestselling memoirist. Kareem means generous. Each episode ends with a special Plus One segment, in which guests are invited to thank those that have supported them along their journey. She totally doesnt get it. Were jumping in way too soon and talking way too much. Ill read you a little bit from the very end of that chapter because the thing that he was saying I think is, This is how it goes.. And Ive talked to a couple of my girlfriends whove gotten divorced, and they say the exact same thing happens to them. Team Everything Happens, Kate, I love that youre human- that you cry as easily as I do and that you say youre not normal as often as I do (me about myself of course!). Its what I said to my grad school colleague when she asked me if I planned to go into academia after we graduated. Ryland was a light in this world who struggled with anxiety, depression and addiction. Stay healthy. Its a sin, its hell. Kelly Corrigan:Ah, it was so terrible. Kate Bowler:Thanks so much for doing this. I said, No, I just want to go back to Vietnam and do what I was doing. Labels like chronic illness, or caregiver, or widow, or mom of a kid with special needs. Hosted by Tom Scharpling and featuring celebrity guests, music, callers, and plenty of surprises, The Best Show streams live every Tuesday night on Twitch at 6pm PT and is available on your podcast apps the next day. I was wrong not to try to know her, and I could just see it in his face that it was like, Okay, you understand. I was in a big, big rush to get in front of him, and say my apology, and be returned to a state of grace, but the fact is that his mom died. Its a very learned thing that I have to insert the words into my mouth, and push them out deliberately, because my instinct is to solve. Ten days before I was scheduled to defend my dissertation, English Policies, Curricular Reform and Teacher Development in Multilingual, Post-colonial Djibouti, I got the call. So, I think things happen when you leave the house. In fact Im in the middle of reading both of your books right now. Go get mixed up in something. By creating an account, you acknowledge that PBS may share your information with our member stations and our respective service providers, and that you have read and understand the Privacy Policy and Terms of Use. She died this morning, and I was just sick to my stomach. Kelly Corrigan:So, my husband worked at a startup in San Francisco, which is called Medium, and its a writing platform, and as a writer, I was welcome to come, and use their office space, and its everything you think a San Francisco startup is. So, Dont eat a hamster is our version of Dont jump to conclusions.. Youre giving these beautiful phrases, and each of them feels like a kind of roadmap, and you start with one that really resonated deeply with me. You dont have to bring it all. Kate Bowler:Well, the quote that really resonated with me is when you said, They are moving onward, not away from you, but with you. Enjoy an intimate and heartfelt interview series hosted by author Kelly Corrigan. Kate Bowler:You are someone who has gotten mixed up in all kinds of things, and I am so glad to know you. Then I wanted to get right with him, and urgently. Now, eleven years post-cancer, Im still learning to show up and be of use in my life, my marriage, my family and my work for the display of His splendor. Claire, Kate Bowler:So, todays conversation is about developing language to move us forward when life is well, chronic. I mean, its a little bit like, Just keep saying yes. You know, When in doubt, say Sure, Ill do that, just to see what happens next, just to see who you might meet. 5-Minute Listen. She has been called the voice of her generation and the poet laureate of the ordinary, and she is the most perfect person to talk to to kick us off because her lovely new book is called Tell Me More, and Tell me more is one of those phrases she uses, phrases that she writes about that help guide her through relationships, and parenting, and grief. Shed do dishes all day and into the night to just get to listen to her children, just to get to watch them through a one-way glass, you know? But the fact is if I said, Tell me more, go on, what else, youd say the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, and it would be like the thing behind the thing, behind the thing is where really the pain is, and if I had waited way longer, I wouldve been able to say, Oh, I understand.. Kate is a young mother, writer and professor who, at age 35, was suddenly diagnosed with Stage IV cancer. The things we tell ourselves and each other are so important, arent they? I had to make it into a vest to remove it from my body with the tag still on it, you know? You cant only experience deep gratitude at the toenails that you seriously wish someone else would have cut, because seriously, whos doing this around here? Its not in my family. Like, Im just an ordinary person, and I make all the mistakes that everybody else makes and maybe even 10% more, and then there she was, and what she would have done for the life that I was kind of rushing through, multitasking my way through day, after day, and you know, sort of feeling snappish, and then catching myself, and feeling like I should be different. I went to see her one time. I love it that it gives up perfectionism, and it just says, Hey, whats possible today?. I heard your friend died, and I just couldnt bear to call them back. Kate Bowler:Words matter. We should thank the chef. Kelly shares her own go to mantra as well as two blessings from frequent Kelly Corrigan Wonders guest Kate Bowler and her co-author/friend/podcast producer Jessica Richies beautiful and extremely useful book: The Lives We Actually Have (100 Blessings for Imperfect Days). Kerri, Warmly, Kelly Corrigan:Now maybe Im going to go to Durham, and now maybe Im going to get my PhD in Divinity. When bestselling author Kelly Corrigan experienced the death of her dad and dear friend back-to-back, she couldnt shake the feeling that she wasnt living as gratefully as she wanted to. Im hearing all the music, Im totally tuned in to the right channel, and then just like that, I slip into those mundane irritants., Kelly Corrigan:And then I catch myself, and then I feel this sense of shame, and he said, Its like this. You know, like it wasnt me. Today is the right day to Love, Believe, Do and mostly Live. Wondering if youve come across Bahai writings as I find them inspiring in building a circle of friends, a community and help each other grow together. You could do worse than to live by that one. Shes not going to their wedding, shes not going to pick out wedding dresses with them. Thats my other life mantra. Kelly Corrigan:Hey, thanks for having me. I was wrong, and that is very soothing, but then that took me back to this moment where I had gone to work for United Way after college, because I was going to save the world, and I was this total do-gooder. Kelly Corrigan:Theres a thing Im aware of about eye contact between spouses, and you either make it, or you dont, and once youre aware that thats deeply meaningful, and that it has this kind of almost immeasurable, physiological effect on the other person, then you make an effort to look them in the eye, and that seems like such a small thing, but its actually definitional in terms of your relationship, in terms of whether its a good day, or a bad day, or a good interaction, or a bad interaction. For awhile, Id say shed been robbed, or ripped off. I need to hear what your motto is. Kelly Corrigan:So, I used to go in there and write, and they have a meditation teacher twice a day at 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM, and at first I was sort of sheepish about availing myself of every single employee benefit, but sure enough, eventually I found myself sitting in there, and this guy was kind of amazing. The Honor and Weight of of Being a Role Model. Im a questioning Christian (if there is such a thing) since I doubt youd ever see the Son of God appear in any of the beautiful Catholic or mega churches that apparently represent Him. Ask the dancers, and the athletes, the painters, and musicians. Lives dont last. But first, we need you to sign in to PBS using one of the services below. They reel and wander and fixate and roll back and reconsider, because its like this, having a mind. The book is full of warm and witty blessings found within the struggles of our shared humanity, from theNew York Timesbestselling authors ofGood Enough. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Kate Bowler:You are someone who has gotten mixed up in all kinds of things, and I am so glad to know you. This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. Yeah. I mean, that means shes with them. Shes not going to hold their babies.. Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Thats the word. We have a lot to learn from you. Sadly, our family motto was, Youll pass in a crowd if the crowds big enough. My mothers mother didnt want her to get a swelled head, and she passed that down to us, her four daughters. Im coming. Maybe I dont have to be good, but I can try to be least a little better then Ive been so far., Riham:Our family motto is Allah Kareem. Kate Bowler:Theres this other phrase, I was wrong, that has real power, and you learned that in a really intense way when your grandma died. Michael highlights the importance of . Go get mixed up in something. Kelly also hosts her own podcast Kelly Corrigan Wonders, which she describes as a "place for people who like to laugh while they think." On the podcast, she tackles a different question every month in a series of weekly conversations with some of her favorite thinkers. Its all this cumulative effect of a thousand minuscule moments. Kate, And Ive talked to a couple of my girlfriends whove gotten divorced, and they say the exact same thing happens to them. The reach of language can be laughable.. Perhaps weve got to choose which we want to continue and which we want to challenge. Inspiring and thought-provoking interviews conducted by author Kelly Corrigan. Kelly Corrigan:I didnt die. I absolutely love that phrase. The idea that any day could be this huge day, I dont know, that really gets me out of bed, you know? Theres a whole world out there happening, and you can step into all kinds of things, and you dont need to know why youre leaving the house. Your mantra is fantastic and is sounds like it has served you well through the years! Kareem means generous. Both Kate and Kelly are remarkable women and in tandem they make for great listening. But I asked the doctor what the right term for me might be, and he said Survivor-in-progress, which was super annoying. Stay healthy. You surely know about hard times, and I love that you are continuing to show up every day. Just see who you can bump into out there. So, I grew up with this sentence with my fathers voice in my head saying, Allah Kareem, God is generous., Cheryl:Our family motto is, Dont eat a hamster. Ive read Tell Me More twice already. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. One of the hardest things Ive been wrestling with is not having any clear language for this weird place between sick and healthy, weak and strong. Please note that this episode references addiction and suicide. Weeks later, the missing hamster crawled out from under the stove. Kelly Corrigan:I mean, unless youre a monk, and youre meditating for 60 days in a mountain somewhere. Its probably cause of something youve been eating. I was wrong not to try to know her, and I could just see it in his face that it was like, Okay, you understand. She's an author. Kelly Corrigan:And it wasnt my turn for his attention. We can remove the first show in the list to add this one. Hosted by four-time New York Times bestselling author Kelly Corrigan, the show features insightful conversations with notable guests, reflecting on their lives and the impact they can have on their worlds. That sounds really right to me. I really appreciate it. Despair defies description. I was healthy, and then I was sick, and now Im feeling pretty good, and even though the language around immunotherapy isnt perfect, I can happily say that I am in remission. Dont misread this, my mother was a loving woman, but she passed on this legacy, this painful legacy shed been burdened with, that women should take up as little space as possible, risk as little as possible, and hide our lights lest we make fools of ourselves. I dont know. Welcome to Kelly Corrigan Wonders, a place for people who like to laugh while they think and find it useful to look closely at ourselves and our weird ways in the hopes that knowing more and feeling more will help us do more and be better. The Best Show with Tom Scharpling. What do we do when the labels were given arent necessarily the ones we choose for ourselves? Kelly Corrigan Wonders Weekly series started Oct. 4, 2020. Kelly Corrigan:I didnt die. Kelly Corrigan sits down with Melinda French Gates. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Kelly Corrigan:So, I used to go in there and write, and they have a meditation teacher twice a day at 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM, and at first I was sort of sheepish about availing myself of every single employee benefit, but sure enough, eventually I found myself sitting in there, and this guy was kind of amazing. Kelly Corrigan:So, I get it, but I spend a lot of time with them, and Im madly in love with them, really, really have this deep, incredible connection with them that I just value so much, and they are in her, and you know, theyre everything that was so important to her. Kelly Corrigan:Where you can feel the person kind of asking around, snooping just enough, and its not for your sake. Gratefully, Embed. So, God is generous was my dads way of promising us a better future. So, I just really went bananas, because on top of the shirt problem, I went downstairs to clean the kitchen, and I found everybodys bowls, and spoons, and cups, and I had that reaction that so many women have, which is, Well I guess Im the least busy. Minds dont rest. She's a podcaster. Kelly Corrigan:But you know, if Im jumping in with my fancy solution two and a half minutes in, I just cut you off, and then we leave each other, and I have this little high like, Ah, I just really helped her, and she walks away thinking, She didnt hear anything I said. Onward, my dears. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Being a runner, this has always been meaningful for me. Just get in the mix, get in the line of fire. And she said, Kelly, Im going to try to do the Uber to this wedding, and I was wondering if you can request a woman, and I said, No you cant, but you can trust it. Kelly Corrigan:Sure, my pleasure. Kate Bowler:Yeah, I believe you. Im sorry to ask about the hard part, but would you mind telling me what happened? Team Everything Happens. The result is "Think Twice: Michael Jackson," a 10-part podcast from Audible and Wondery that will be available exclusively on Audible and Amazon Music on Thursday. You cant only experience deep gratitude at the toenails that you seriously wish someone else would have cut, because seriously, whos doing this around here? She lives in Philly and I live in California. I went into this tiny bathroom in Baltimore in our office building, and just cried my eyes out, and it wasnt even because she died. Kelly Corrigan:But you know, if Im jumping in with my fancy solution two and a half minutes in, I just cut you off, and then we leave each other, and I have this little high like, Ah, I just really helped her, and she walks away thinking, She didnt hear anything I said. Hes just one of those people that you think, God, if I could get five minutes with him, Id just tell him my biggest problem, and hed just say something in seven words that would solve everything., Kelly Corrigan:So, eventually I went up to him, and I said, Im caught between these two worlds, this world where Im full of clarity and insight and gratitude, and Im seeing all the big colors of the world. Shed do anything. Kate Bowler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Show Kelly Corrigan Wonders, Ep Kelly's Gratitude List - Nov 25, 2022 Today, Im speaking with New York Times bestselling author, Kelly Corrigan. Despair defies description. Kate Bowler:Words matter. Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Copyright 2023 Public Broadcasting Service (PBS), all rights reserved. Kelly Corrigan Full Transcript - Kate Bowler Everything Happens with Kate Bowler Kelly Corrigan: Tell Me More 30 00:00:00 30 Read more about this episode, and get show notes, here. Ill read you a little bit from the very end of that chapter because the thing that he was saying I think is, This is how it goes.. This is the way this has to be, and its right there. Kelly Corrigan:And how do we earn it? Kate Bowler:Well, the one that we sort of settled on most was, Dont let the turkeys get you down, cause we were all deeply unpopular children, but it did make me think about mottos, and how it sort of defines the season that we live in. It doesnt end, and also you cant live there. Like the other day when I was being wheeled into a procedure, the nurse looked at my chart, and then casually said, Colon cancer. I go, Oh, thank you for that bit of suggestion.. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. We read and appreciate every comment. Our guest is Kelly Corrigan, a best-selling author and host of PBS talk show Tell Me More and podcast Kelly Corrigan Wonders. I was wrong not to try to ease her days in some way.. The words we speak, and the words spoken over us. I mean, that means shes with them. Hosted by four-time New York Times bestselling author Kelly Corrigan, the show dives deep into each guests life to pull out poignant lessons they hope others can use to find their own calling or better understand themselves. Just do your best. Playlist. The idea that we just sort of wander around, consume things until we die, like were just a series of small appetites without any deep, rich, meaningful, satisfying connection. May you find Christ, comfort, and companions amidst the questions! Over 50 & Flourishing with Dominique Sachse. Kelly Corrigan:Hearts dont idle. I hope you continue sharing your thoughts and joining in the conversation! This forgetting, this slide into smallness, this irritability in shame, this disorienting grief Its like this. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Tomorrow, March 28, 2023 would have been his 40th birthday. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah, and theres forgiveness and acceptance kind of intertwined there that you know, youre going to forget. Can we trust our gut? Absolutely enjoy these, the wisdom, the calm, the gentle reminder of our true reality and the essentiality of the connections we make and need to survive and help each other. On days when I feel overwhelmed, I tell myself all I need to do is maintain the faith and exit with grace. You wrote about the end of words. Its the title of my memoir-still-in-progress. I was also living only maybe 10 miles from my very old grandma who lived alone, and I kept kind of meaning to go visit her, but its a lot easier to show up at work every day at the United Way, and get kind of righteous about all the people who work for money versus the rest of us who are working for the greater good, than it is to go to your grandmas smelly, weird apartment, and have weird conversations with an 88-year old, you know? Society & Culture English One day I just snapped and threatened to sell the dog.
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