I also think theres a lot of societal pressure for middle-aged women to simply disappear. Sometimes there was a girl playing bass, but you didnt have girls singing their stories.. And I realized, if you make the thinga band, a zine, whateverthen you find your people. I remember Kathi bringing back a picture of her using a bikini top as a coffee filter, Hanna says. You dont have to spend money to make the record or mail anything, so it seems like theres a profit margin that could be exploited for a good cause. I guess I dont feel really precious about it; but at the same time, it feels differently to me playing it now because Im so much older. . Ang BAHAY at BUHAY ni Billy Crawford at Coleen Garcia and their baby boy, Amari!An exclusive look inside their beautiful airy home You will be so touched . You mention music as a way of bringing people together, which seems like a clear throughline in your work. Kathi Wilcox and Billy Karren. I cant speak on behalf of the band, but as a longtime fan, it makes sense to me. Or do we have a set of instructions that we're trying to follow, that becomes our lived practice?. Weve been working up to it for quite a while but in little bursts, Vail says. The house was located in Mount Pleasant. This was going to be me taking over my not-so-great history of growing up here . The pair made up half of one of the most important punk bands of the 1990s, and Bikini Kills demise around 1997 was a notoriously rough one. I sat on a plastic chair and watched in disbelief. Hanna, then nineteen, bluffed her way into an interview. Wilcox did explore a one-off, no-pressure project called the Casual Dots, but it was the Julie Ruin that roped her back into music full time about three years ago. The group consisted of vocalist and songwriter Kathleen Hanna, guitarist Billy Karren, bassist Kathi Wilcox and drummer Tobi Vail. Thats why we had 52,000 season ticket holders, and why 90% of those renewed. Again, she says, we are not here to talk about West Ham. I consider their music to be pretty threatening to the status quo, if we consider the status quo to be patriarchy and the music industry., The two bands also share an inherently anti-professional aesthetic, Vail says, and both make work that highlights the process of punk. Beloved wife to the late Syd, mother to Sandra and Keith, grandmother to Tracy and great grandmother to Elliott and Emily, who will be forever missed. THIS IS NOT A TEST: Bikini Kill have announced shows in LA & NYC this spring. it came out on stage. I try to create opportunities for that to happen. The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of Cond Nast. Daring track Suck My Left One features a call and response between guitar and vocals, with Daddys Lil Girl showcasing some clear, picked notes and repetitive climbs within a scale, almost like what we now see with artists such as Arctic Monkeys on their track Do Me a Favour. Also, who can not be motivated to fight against the horrific conditions that were living under right now? Ive made a lot of choices to not have money or stability or security in order to be able to pursue that state of creative engagement. The Apprentice star Dani opens up on tears over Karren interview [EXCLUSIVE] Paul O'Grady joins BBC rival after Radio 2 ageism row [LATEST] "I think Karren would be a very worthy replacement for . The next issue of SCAM is in the works, and just this week Lyle and her longtime musical partner Ivy Jeanne dropped Center of the Mile, a tender collection of folk-punk songs, sales of which will benefit the Emma Deboncoeur Trans Health Scholarship Fund. Alan is obviously the main person on the show. Hers is a remarkable story. But Kathi Wilcox, formerly of feminist punk band Bikini Kill and now rocking in the Julie Ruin, is an observer. Everyone was like, We understand your band perfectly.. And as for Wilcoxs enduring partnership with Hanna, the bass player says its improved with age. No, absolutely not. I think I probably encouraged them to move here, but I would never tell people that D.C. was some Haight-Ashbury.. More disclosure: Svenonius is a friend and MacKaye is a mentor who released my old bands recordings on his label.). Now, the lyrics of Rebel Girl were echoing off the Capitol marble: Hanna and Wilcox dont remember revolution arriving that afternoon. During her student years at Evergreen State College in Olympia she worked as a counselor at a domestic violence and rape shelter and continued to counsel fans backstage at Bikini Kill concerts. William Francis Karren is an American musician, best known as the lead guitarist of the punk/riot grrrl band Bikini Kill, formed by Kathleen Hanna, with Karren, Tobi Vail and Kathi Wilcox. Both Hanna and Vail said that the Raincoats were a big reason for the reunion (We were all very moved by seeing that show, Vail adds). No, no. Thats Wikipedia. his son Jack managing director of West Ham Ladies did, might get a slap, even though youre a woman, Hopefully the penny has dropped for him that its not OK to patronise, intimidate and threaten women and treat them as if they are impostors in a mans world. I can remember exactly where I was standing. And Im really interested in digital downloads as a way to raise money, because its immaterial. She said that being so entwined with the activism behind the music made her lose some of her identity. It was that kind of show, says Ian MacKaye, then of local punk giants Fugazi. She answers with such conviction that I assume I have got it wrong. She was well-respected in her community and was able to go to nursing school and do public health work. At 48, and a quarter of a century after becoming Birmingham Citys CEO, she is still known as the first lady of football. What if girls owned the world? Karren Brady is immaculate navy dress, navy tights, navy shoes and Chanel belt, her hair perfectly coiffed, exuding warmth and confidence. The old d.c. space is even longer gone. Member of. The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of Cond Nast. . Just like Kentucky the night before. After all, Sugar famously said that if he couldnt ask women whether they had children, the solution was not to hire them. Part of the genuine excitement of a Bikini Kill set still comes from how they swap instruments constantlyWilcox exploring the drums, Vail shredding a deviant screamas if the stage were a merry-go-round, a curiosity, breathing. Disclamer: Billy Karren net worth displayed here are calculated based on a combination social factors. She says this simply made her realise how short life is, and redouble her efforts. What did you think of it?. He did not participate in Bikini Kill's 2019 reunion; his . . When I left school at 18 with no qualifications, she seems to have forgotten her nine O-levels and four A-levels I didnt really know what I was going to do with my life. Millions of dollars. She was sent to an all-girls Catholic boarding school, which she hated. In January, there will be 20. Instead of barking slurs, the guys danced. As she did her now husband, then boyfriend, the Birmingham City . Search: Music Film for: New Music Genres Charts Lists Community. When I was a kid, I was motivated by revenge, mostly because my parents tried to kill me. Thats complete rubbish, Im not worth anything like that, she says. To you, she may be known best as aide to Lord Alan Sugar on The Apprentice, or maybe it's her House of Lords role. A few years ago she said she would never take a years maternity leave the amount women are legally entitled to and that There would be no CEO, I think, that would take a year off. Have her views changed since then? What ambitions are still unfulfilled? It came down to a basic survival strategy: How am I gonna live? Along with BK drummer Tobi Vail, theyve been plundering their old recordings and re-releasing them independently. To be in a really shitty family situation in a small town, then finding the agency to participate and make my own culture was really important. How do things get distributed? Life's Work: An Interview with Billie Jean King. With their aim of encouraging women everywhere to start bands, their album title started out as a slogan, as well as their other well-coined phrase Stop the J-Word Jealousy from Killing Girl Love. Billy Karren. I used to have this white truck, and I would drive in it and listen to cassettes from our practices, and I would make up lyrics in the truck, like singing at full volume. When Vail, bassist Kathi Wilcox, and singer-guitarist Kathleen Hanna took the stage together, linear time collapsed. Hanna remembers when the first neighborhood Starbucks opened, Everyone was like, Corporations are taking over the world! and we were like, Woo-hoo!. The occasion was a series of celebrations for the legendary UK punk band the Raincoats, loosely organized around my then-recent book on their 1979 debut album. I came to the Palladium by myself, but this was not a show you really go to alone: Everyone was together. It was like they had been waiting for us.. Bikini Kill have announced that they are reforming, kicking off the reunion with the announcement of three live dates in the US in the spring. is at 10pm on 4 April, Channel 5, Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning, 2023 Guardian News & Media Limited or its affiliated companies. Guys were always peeling off their shirts at punk shows. Or purchase a subscription for unlimited access to real news you can count on. All of the numbers off Run Fast are raucous, modern disco-punk delicacies. Kathi Wilcox (second from right) spoke with About.com regarding her revolutionary former band Bikini Kill and her new project, the Julie Ruin. Formed in Olympia, Wash., in 1990, the quartet helped launch riot grrrl, a radical feminist movement that would spread from Adams Morgan group houses to the pages of Newsweek. She has let nothing hold her back, not even a life-threatening brain aneurysm in 2006. This band is a very easy band to be in.. Its passion for family, for business, for leading from the front, for being Karren Brady. I think that came across completely wrong. Maybe the death threats that kept landing in her bands mailbox werent something to shrug off. He placed 2m worth of advertising with LBC. Fanzines were another way to reach out. Their cool protest songs predicted and shaped our current cultural moment, in which recognizing the politics in art is non-negotiable. Her Irish father Terry was a self-made, Rolls-Royce driving millionaire, who made his fortune in property and printing. At times, it is hard to know what Bradys passion is. Born. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement and Your California Privacy Rights. Its strange to see that move to the center of popular culture. Brady sits behind the desk, a Warholesque print of West Ham legend Bobby Moore above her, a laptop in front, and a huge flatscreen TV with rolling news on the wall. Karen Gillan sent pulses racing as she posed up a storm for a slew Instagram snaps as continued to Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3 on Monday. Its strange she was shocked by this finding. But looking at Emma, I saw that you can actually carve out a wonderful space for yourself. In an interview for Spin's 2005 20th anniversary issue, Love continued to criticize Hanna ("I still don't like her"), . The Julie Ruin is a forward-thinking unit, but Hanna and Wilcox have also been busy retracing their Bikini Kill footsteps. Much of Bradys wealth is thought to date back to the sale of the club. But, of course, there is much more to Brady than football numerous business interests (last July, she became chair of Philip Greens Taveta retail empire); her position as a Tory peer in the House of Lords; an outspoken column for the Sun; aide to Lord Sugar on The Apprentice; mother of two grown children; and champion of women in the workplace. Yeah. After all, on The Apprentice she often pulls up contestants for throwaway sexist remarks, or signals her disapproval with a killer arched eyebrow. The band's . Im not looking to be a Cabinet minister. Billy Karren. But I dont know. I dont know if youve ever worked in business, but you dont go around going raaaah [she roars], having these massive confrontations. In 2010, I say, you were was asked about his comment in the Guardian. As the meetings gained momentum in Washington, participants started exporting their ideas to the rest of the country through a network of pen pals and self-published fanzines. The Raincoats have been a source of inspiration for Vail since her teenage years (and friends since Bikini Kill toured the UK in 1993), but at The Kitchen she saw something more: older women continuing to make art with humor, ferocity, and deep friendship. Vail and Karren live in Olympia, and all four are still in touch, having recently launched an eponymous label to get the Bikini Kill discography back in circulation. Keep supporting great journalism by turning off your ad blocker. Now, we can finally say, Yeah, what we did was important and were really proud of it. And we can keep it in print.. There is unhappiness, too, with the manager David Moyes and, perhaps most of all, with the three people at the top of the club owners Sullivan and Gold, and Brady, whose annual salary is 868,000. 2023 Cond Nast. You have to do the things youre passionate about, that you love. The pioneering punk four-piece originally bowed out in 1997. Viewing All | Billy Karren. Her road to one of punk's most storied bands is accidental . . Her world seems perfectly composed. So the transplants endured Folgers from Safeway until Vails mom started mailing oversize bags of beans from home. No, because I could not take a year off. More info: https://t.co/igiqXRYppM pic.twitter.com/UVYjg9zwEY, Bikini Kill (@theebikinikill) January 15, 2019. . Your world has taught me nothing, Hanna sang with fire on Feels Blind, a reminder of the grave inadequacy of society. All rights reserved. What character does Karen G. I figured out how to rig my life so that I can spend most of my time doing things that engage productively with other people. Hanna drove south to Durham, N.C., where she would move in with friends and take job doing data entry. She looks aghast. Vail passed on being interviewed for this story via e-mail: I dont remember much about DC except being depressed and homesick. Karren almost never gives interviews and also declined. So when we broke up, it took us years to re-fortify. She sees the mouths of young girls gaping at her sister in arms, Kathleen Hanna. 3.49 Million. If life in Bikini Kill was interminably tough, life after Bikini Kill was briefly devastating. Vinyl and CD Discography; 1 Appearances 1 Compilations 33 Credits 3 . I realized that music is my survival strategy., Among a charged punk songbook that often reads like it was written yesterday, Vail particularly mentions the guttural Pussy Whipped cut Lil Red, an intense recasting of Little Red Riding Hood in which Hanna sings, Heres my life, why dont you take it/Heres my cunt, why dont you rape it. Remember when everyone thought Trump wasnt going to get elected because that video came out of him talking about grabbing the pussy? Vail asks. So for me, SCAM is about participating in an underground cultural network. Before we start, Brady reaches for her iPhone. In a Bikini Kill interview, Karren gave his influences as The Slits, The Ronettes, Chrissie Hynde, and Wire.[5]. You can see it in her face, her drive, her hunger to achieve. Check out all of the highlights from Billy Corgan's interview (below). After the birth of her first child, she took only three days leave. A decade after Minor Threat and Bad Brains established Washington as the global epicenter of hardcore punk, Fugazi, Nation of Ulysses and dozens of other proudly independent rock bands were earning Washington a vaunted reputation. Thats what punk did for me. Karren Brady is a business woman, author, columnist and TV personality. Ive had many of my own transcendent experiences watching the Raincoats play: They are in their 60s and 70s and still perform regularly, exuding total unselfconscious joy and resilience, forging inspired cross-generational dialogue with their work. I look at the Bobby Moore painting above her head. The dazzling punk quintet had befriended Bikini Kill out west and toured with them back to D.C. after hyping them to friends back home. This cross-generational aspectextended by the opener, punk icon Alice Bagadded to the shows electric purpose. If you want to know more about our grass & bamboo straws, please contact us via Email, Phone, or Facebook She might look like shes in her own world when she plays her bass, eyes closed and sometimes with her back turned to the audience. Photo by Michelle Groskopf. Melissa Bobbitt is a music journalist with over 10 years of experience focusing on 1990s pop and rock artists. Vicious, nasty and unnecessary. In the course of our band, that feeling probably wore off towards the end. Earlier this month, there was a violent pitch invasion and coins were thrown at the directors box. This is something Ive done on my Sundays and days off to shine a light on the equality issues for women and I would like to focus on that., But, I say, the subjects are not unrelated. No, he just mentioned it in passing.. Theyre just so happy to see us on stage that its this feeling of joy in the room. Its not yet known whether the return of Bikini Kill will see the band writing or recording new material, while no further information has been provided at this time about the bands other future touring plans. Instead, riot grrrl morphed into an activist group that held regular meetings to discuss empowerment, organization, safety and support in the punk community. Just a few hours before doors, when the Raincoats live drummer, Vice Cooler, alerted me to the fact that three members of Bikini Kill were in the building, I spiraled quickly from puzzled to shook to awe to glee. By the time she left, 75% of senior management were women. The badass bassist talks about her new band. Ive never walked away from anything Ive done, and Im not going to start now. Photograph: Joshua Black Wilkins Well be in practice, and Ill just be playing drums and Ill get chills thinking about how the lyrics speak to whats happening today, or somebody will start crying while were playing a song. In the documentary, Brady is constantly left open-mouthed or speechless at her discoveries. Their shows were thought to be not just the frontline of teen-girl pain but a war against patriarchy, embodied by the men who would come to just hassle the band. I only saw them play a couple of times, and I wasn't close with them then. Chances are you're just like us and you can't get enough of love, no matter what your favorite show is. Moyes was fined 30,000 by the FA. But I remember they drew a lot of intense negative energy from men and women who just didnt want things to change. Instead, the singer of Bikini Kill felt the room turn upside down. . Tobi Vail at Bikini Kills first Palladium show. The first Bikini Kill reunion show, held April 25, 2019 at the Hollywood Palladium. 86%. Clifford would always start interviews by receiving phone calls from, say, Simon Cowell or Beyonc, thanking him for everything he had done for them. In a nutshell, she does a lot. Whats something Im the best at? she says. Theres a twinkle in her eye, and the warmth has returned. She insists she does not remember saying that, and that it is up to the individual. Unfortunately, Bikini Kills story ended in total burnout. Vail learned Beatles songs on guitar, then turned back to the drums. The band broke up in 1997, but they briefly reunited for a special one-off performance back in 2017. Wilcox said the process has been very time consuming but rewarding. stab you in the heart.. It is in this last capacity that we meet. This has an instigating power: It was Bikini Kills goal to encourage all girls everywhere to start bands or make fanzines in order to help write the language of cultureto not just be consumersand, in turn, help create the world. So yes, I do feel proud of myself.. 2023 Guitar.com is part of NME Networks. On November 15, 1990, a 2-year-old boy named Billy Blankenship was reported to have fallen down the stairs in his babysitter's care in Concordia, Missouri. In the documentary, she bemoans the lack of legislation to ensure women are paid equally for doing jobs of equal worth. Our home address was published in our fanzine, Wilcox says. Mitchell, Claudia & Reid-Walsh, Jacqueline (2008). Well, obviously in the Lords we review legislation so all we can do is keep campaigning for these issues to be pushed higher and higher up the agenda. Jenny Toomey, leader of the veteran D.C. indie troupe Tsunami, remembers the shift. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. She smiles. 100%. She asked him? One of them, Chickenhead, was partially a response to skinhead activity in the Florida scene, and they used provocative stage performances, like breaking and rolling in glass, to discourage violence at shows. For Tammy Rae was, Vail told me, also a favorite Bikini Kill song of Kurt Cobains. but they briefly reunited for a special one-off performance back in 2017. I just felt like I lost my family and my band at the same time and I didnt know who I was anymore.. And I realised to have that independence, you needed financial independence. After passing nine O-levels, she left to join the sixth form of a former all-boys school one of only six girls. William Francis Karren is an American musician, best known as the lead guitarist of the punk/riot grrrl band Bikini Kill, formed by Kathleen Hanna, with Karren, Tobi Vail and Kathi Wilcox. Instead of lingering in the back of d.c. space the now-shuttered venue at Seventh and E streets NW the girls in the audience rushed to the front to see Bikini Kills big splash up close. new music genres. Ive agreed to see you today because its a serious issue. But this issue is about just that treating women equally at work. Did she feel she had to man-up to stand a chance? TJR shares a name with Hannas 1998 solo record, and this incarnation does perform a couple tracks off that release. The members of Bikini Kill hadn't played together, let alone hung out, in 20 . Everyone had read the articles in Seventeen and Newsweek, articles about riot grrrl that distorted the movements message and spun the community into disarray. ., Wilcox completes the thought, Its not boring., Washingtons coffee options were bleak. Theres not much I can do about that. But the beauty of Wikipedia is that you can ask for information to be corrected. . Tickets for all shows go on sale this Friday. Music is a way of bringing people together, and Bikini Kills return offers encouragement and support to women looking to fight back during this tremendously misogynist moment in America. I did point that out to the makers, actually. Wilcox now lives in New York, too, and has joined Hannas new band, the Julie Ruin, an extension of Hannas old solo project of the same name. Where its like you go back to the scene of the crime, but this time it all works out?. Wilcox hopped out in D.C., where she was dating Fugazis Guy Picciotto. Outside the District, Bikini Kill was ahead of its time. Talk of Anita Hill and Desert Storm had dominated the conversation during Bikini Kills year in Washington, but the band rarely addressed national issues head-on. I Hate Danger is a hammer to the plague of male condescension. January 15, 2019. I was going to prove that I was not going to be killed. But shes aware of the significance of her once again sharing the stage with Hanna. Its the only way to change the mainstreams mind about who transgender people are: by simply existing in a public way. She is at her best telling these stories funny, lively, a natural performer. I get up to go. But when the Raincoats asked Vail to do a song at the Kitchen event, she agreed, not quite knowing what she would do. She examines the nature of unconscious bias (how primary schoolchildren distinguish between womens jobs and mens jobs, and how employers tend to choose men over women even when they have the same CVs), why women are often paid less for work of equal value, why women cant ask for more money but men can, and, perhaps most importantly, how working mothers are discriminated against. The more [threats] we got, the more I knew we were on the right trail, Hanna says. Brady has just made a timely TV programme about the gender pay gap. But later I check the Presidents Club brochure that emerged after the event. Who the hell wants to get to 48 and think: I wish I would have, I should have I could have done this, I might have done that. You dont really do much in life unless you take risks, push yourself and find your passion.. Karren Brady quits as chair of Philip Greens retail group, Karren Brady: first lady of football has risen to top of business league, Karren Brady under pressure to drop Sun column after malcontents claim, West Hams Brady told by London mayor to withdraw claim of budget cuts, Karren Brady to chair firm that owns Philip Green's Arcadia group, You would never guess Bradys football club is in meltdown, her position as a Tory peer in the House of Lords, Sugar famously said that if he couldnt ask women whether they had children, the solution was not to hire them. It made the set feel like a conversation between themselves and with us. Rehearsals quietly began last spring between New York and Los Angeles, where Hanna now lives. They set out with fiery passion to revolutionise the world of women in rock. He attended many, many years ago, but he didnt like it and never went again. Are you sure? Bikini Kill have today (January 15) surprised fans by announcing a string of US gigs. For me, it was a homecoming, Hanna says. How do you find the time and energy to stay so involved? She reminds me of Max Clifford, another supreme self-brander. Sini Anderson's razor-sharp "The Punk Singer" profiles the career and impact of Kathleen Hanna, a feminist rock icon (via bands Bikini Kill and Le Tigre) who abruptly dropped from view in . Before long, Sullivan headhunted her, bought Birmingham City at her instigation, and, when she was 23, made her CEO. When I feel the least powerful, I try to figure out: Whats the most powerful I can be? At this final event, organized by Raincoat Shirley OLoughlin and dubbed The Raincoats and Friends, I was slated to read in between a series of screenings and performances, including one from Bikini Kill drummer Tobi Vail. For example, she says that even though its illegal to ask women in an interview if they have children, 46% of employers think this is fine, and 41% think working mothers are a burden on the team. All rights reserved. Have you seen the programme? There was no fossilized version of punk here. I just kept telling myself, Were on the right side of history.. She lived in squats, served free vegan meals via Food Not Bombs, and played in several bands. So when Tobi contacted me in 2017 and asked if I would consider playing with Bikini Kill, I was like, Hmm, OK! I felt like I was getting drafted or something. Im just asking how you hold men with clout to account when they treat women unfairly. The sitter, Tawny Sue Gunter, claimed she had put Blankenship in her basement and told him to stay there as she prepared lunch upstairs in the kitchen. New Music Releases and Upcoming Albums in 2023, Neon Indians Alan Palomo and Mac DeMarco Share Video for New Song, Frank Ocean Cancels Coachella 2023 Weekend 2 Headlining Set. Dominant hierarchies reproduce themselves, whether its capitalism or white supremacy or homophobia. Seizing feminism from the constraints of academia, Bikini Kill delivered their informed message, via the vital vernacular of youth (before, of course, "girl-power" was commandeered and subverted by a certain nicknamed quintet). Net worth score. 22! The day before the show, I picked up my 14-year-old friend from LAX, whod traveled from Olympia for the reunion; afterwards he told me it made him cry. Fiercely committed to punks do-it-yourself ethos, the band became a cipher with no support system. I cant tell you. Billy Karren discography and songs: Music profile for Billy Karren, born 10 March 1965. sign in. No booking agent. I dont want to talk about West Ham, says Brady, because this [the TV show] is something that is really important to me, and I dont want to cloud the two issues. They coined the term girl power in a photocopied fanzine years before the Spice Girls spelled it out in bubble gum. Soon shell hit the West Coast for the first of Bikini Kills reunion shows, taking the place of original guitarist Billy Karren. Patriarchy still exists, sexism still exists. And for five years four or five years I was totally happy having nothing to do with playing music.. Coming up around the same time as Seattle's Soundgarden, Billy made no secret of his admiration for the band. We were trying to keep the outside world from killing us, says Hanna, sipping a latte with Wilcox at a Manhattan cafe on a recent afternoon. They meditated on the ideal scenario: just a few shows, see how it feels. I sense the timer is running. Suddenly Kathi emailed me back and was like, Would you be opposed to playing with Kathleen? Vail recalled to me when I reached her by phone on Wednesday, the day before Bikini Kills first proper reunion show, held last night at the Hollywood Palladium. What was even more shaming was that the match marked the 25th anniversary of Moores death, and was supposed to celebrate the club icon. Im gonna go walk dogs. I just wanted to do anything else that had nothing to do with being in a band or playing music or anything. She left with four A-levels, but decided she wanted to make money rather than go to university. . Our struggles as feminists in punk have been different, but I see it as a sort of similar thing, where maybe the world wasnt ready for the Raincoats at the time, Vail says.
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